Research Notes :: John Ryan, born about 1854
(These
notes by Don Stanley, based on those of John Stephen Ryan, and research done my
myself)
John Ryan’s
life falls into two distinct groupings. The split occurs in July 1886 when the
first confirmed record of him appears in
There are a
number of stories about John Ryan that reference the period prior to
The bulk of
the above have come to me from John Stephen Ryan (note – not the last point
regarding his name). In his notes he states that most of this oral re-telling
came from his own father and grandmother.
Nothing
apart from the above is known about the father who supposedly traveled to the
Current
research is largely based around the Castlebar area of
Taking each
point individually. Remember when reading the following that
That
his father died from yellow fever while visiting the
The story is related through John Ryans son Tim Ryan, to his son, John
Stephen Ryan. It is probably safe to assume that Tim Ryan heard the story from
his father.
John Ryan wanted to visit the
It is not known where he was going, but
It is claimed that John Ryan did not return to
I have done considerable research to try and find records in both
Having the New York Ryan Association search their death records for any
John Ryan dying from yellow fever. None was found.
Receiving from
I have not specifically researched the possibility that John Ryan did
not die whilst in the
I have discussed with researchers in
That
John Ryan was left behind with his mother in
The title really says it all. That he was left with his mother in
As yet I have not had a chance to follow through looking at parish
records of
There are some possibilities from the Mormon Church International
Genealogy Index::
§
John
Ryan, christened
§
John
Ryan, christened
§
John
Ryan, christened
§
John
Ryan, christened
§
John
Ryan, christened
§
John
Ryan, christened
§
John
Ryan, christened
§
John
Ryan, christened
§
John
Ryan, christened
That
his godfathers name is Coffey
This will only be proven correct by finding the correct baptismal
records for John Ryan. As it stands, if we assume it is true, it is a useful
aid to finding the correct baptismal record. On the other hand, if it is not
true, we can never use it to reject any baptismal record as being the correct
one. Since we do not know it is correct, it cannot be used to reject any given
baptismal record.
John Stephen Ryan read this in a letter and distinctly recalls the name
being Coffey or Coffee.
None done to date.
That
John Ryan and his mother fled to
The immediate conjecture if the statement is true is that the family did
not originate in
I posed the question to experts on Irish townlands and parishes on the
IRELAND-L Internet group. The response was that the statement is essentially of
no value. It makes no distinction over whether they fled to
As a clue to origins the statement is meaningless. As a clue to where
records might be found for the period after they fled, it is of more use. The
Irish experts did make a point that if the statement was made exactly as above
and not modified in transcription over the years, then it probably means
That
his mother opened a shop in
No reason to not accept this at its face value.
Have had a look through Griffith Valuation index and found nothing
useful to date. There are some Ryan females running shops, but without knowing
the type of shop it is difficult to take this further.
That
at some point his mother traveled to the
This actually came later, a visitor to the Ryans in
None done.
When did the visitor arrive? Who was it? How old was the mother when she
traveled? Did she return? This appears to be old news (i.e. it occurred a while
before the visitor made the statements), even if JR’s mother were, say 20 at
his birth and this was in 1854 (i.e. she born about 1834), this makes her 66 by
turn of the century. If this trip was made, surely it makes sense that it was
done so much earlier, say in the 1870-1890 period.
That
he is a cousin of the Fitzgerald’s, brewers, of Galway who descended from
Francis Fitzgerald and Eleanor Joyes
It appears to simply be a statement made by JR. Whether he made further
statement about particular members of the Fitzgerald family is not known.
This was a rather large family, many of who went on to positions of high
importance in business and politics in
§
There
is a BlackRock lighthouse near Castlebar
§
Ryan
is not a common name in Mayo (not in the top 10 surnames in either North or
South Mayo)
§
Francis
Fitzgerald descends from the Fitzgeralds of Turlough,
§
In
1853, from parish records of Castlebar-Aglish Parish Births, a Richard Ryan and
Rose FREANY had a son John either born or baptized
§
There
were also Coffeys in Castlebar, one of whom, John Coffey, died aged 87 in 1905
(therefore born around 1818) – see http://www.cmcrp.net/Mayo/DeathBrow1.htm
§
From
Burkes we find Patrick Fitzgerald, one of Francis and Eleanors children, died
in 1853, so is a candidate for the cousin who accompanied “John” Ryan. Patrick
Fitzgerald, son of Francis Fitzgerald apparently had returned to Castlebar by 1840. The following newspaper
article is evidence of this::
The
FOR
VALUABLE DISTILLERY
AND STORE IN THE TOWN OF
CASTLEBAR
To be Sold, within the
Copperroom of the Commercial Buildings, in the City
of
FIRST-That large and
valuable Distillery Establishment at Nun's
SECONDLY-That large
and commodius Store, Kiln & Yard, in Market-street,
containing 6000
barrels of grain. This property is held for a term of two lives & 99 years;
to commence from the decease of said lives at the rent of £30 Irish or £27 13s
11d British.
THIRDLY-That property
in Market-street, Castlebar, partly occupied formerly as a Brewery, consisiting
of a large Malt-house, Store, Brew-house, and Dwelling-house with the Yard,
Offices and Appurtenances-bound on the North by the River; on the South by
market-street; on the East by James FARY's House and Garden, and on the West by
a house in the possession of Ellen
M'AVEY, Widow. Held on
Lease for Lives renewable for ever, at the rent of £65 per annum.
Mr. Francis
FITZGERALD, Brewer in Galway, will show the Properties in Galway to intended
purchasers, and Mr. Patrick FITZGERALD,
Brewer, in Castlebar, will point out the premises there.
Further particulars
may be learned by application to Messrs. James and John BLAKENEY, Solicitors,
2* Gloucester-street, Dublin and Galway; and of Mr John ROURKE, Solicitor, 23
Upper Temple-street, Messrs. BLAKENEY have in Dublin, plans of the different
properties and concerns, which can be seen on application to them.
§
I
have made contact with a person claiming to be a direct descendant of Francis
and Eleanor. His descendency is through
Patrick Fitzgerald’s son Robert who arrived in the
§
To
put the Fitzgeralds of Turlough into historical perspective, the following note
is taken from an Internet site
(http://homepage.tinet.ie/~paulgrant/slieverue/loc_hist/lochist4.htm ) but
parallels the information recorded in Burkes Landed Gentry of Ireland, 4th
Edition 1958, Page 281. (nb the spelling is as on the internet page this was
copied from)
THE- FITZGERALDS OF GURTEEN
Currahaun and the
hamlets of Corefore and Gragenegihie, parcel of the aforesaid town; Lywghvonye
otherwise Luff anie, and the hamlet of Ballivooly, parcel of the said town; and
of three-fourths of
Rathpatricke, and of a yearly rent of 4s. out of the lands of Oneagh (elsewhere
written Creyagh). So seised, the said
Nicholas died Sept. 29th, 16I7. Patrick
Fitzgerald, son and
heir of the said Nicholas, was 50 years of age at the time of his father's
death, and married. The premises are
held of the King in free and common socage, and at a yearly rent Of 26s. 8d.
Under the Cromwellian
regime, John Fitzgerald, the head of the family, forfeited Rathcleheene,
Kilmurry, Gurteens,, Rathpatrick, Luffiny, Curraghmore, and Castlewood (which
last is in the parish of Kilcolumb) ; Toby or Theobald Fitzgerald, at the same
time, forfeited Nicholastown (otherwise " Ballinickoll ").
The following members
of the family were transplanted to
Flemingstown ; and
Walter Fitzgerald, of Gallestown.
John Fitzgerald, on
his transplantation, was assigned the lands of Turlough and other lands in the
Barony of Carra, Co. Mayo ; which lands were confirmed to him by Royal letters
of May 3oth, 1677. He married Elizabeth, youngest daughter of Sir John Browne,
of the Neale, Co. Mayo. He must have
lived to a very great age, as his will in which he is described as " late
of Mohenny, formerly of Turlough, in the County of Mayo," is dated July
23rd, I717, more than 63 years after his departure from Gurteen. Administration with will annexed was granted
to his widow, Elizabeth, July 2ISt, I720.
He was succeeded by his eldest son, Thomas Fitzgerald, born in 1661 died
July, I747, from whom descends the present Charles Lionel Fitzgerald, of
Turlogh Park, J.P. and D.L. for the Co. Mayo.
§
From
an Internet page for Turlough (http://turlough.mayo-ireland.ie/)
Turlough History
The picturesque
The village has
historical links going back as far as the days of George Robert. Better known
as "Fighting Fitzgerald", he was renowned for his equestrian prowess
and having the finest horses competing in the races in the Towerfield, adjacent
to the
The Turlough Round
tower of the 9th century is one of the most complete and best-preserved round
towers in
Turlough is one of the
ancient places associated with St. Patrick. St. Patrick's Church was built in 441 but the Cromwellians,
on the confiscation of the Burgo Estate in Turlough, destroyed it in 1654. The
ruins of the old church are still to be seen, and it has very interesting stone
sculpture. It was under the jurisdiction of the Primates of
That
he apprenticed as a steam engineer
He was apprenticed to an engineering firm in
None to date
Possibly can get at apprenticeship records, would need (expensive) Irish
researcher and fingers crossed the name is John Ryan! Also possibility of
Mormon Church having filmed records needs to be researched.
Apprenticeships were often required to be brought. If so for engineering
then this would have been an expensive business.
That
he spent time as a youth in Blackrock (there are several Blackrock’s in
Not known which Blackrock was referred to. A lot of speculation has been
made that John Ryan came from Abbeyfaele in
Research has been done in
That
he was shipwrecked in the
Exactly as stated above, plus he claimed one death among the crew for a
crew member who would not go into the rigging with the others.
A lot has been done. See separate document about “General Neil”, owned by
Spaight & Sons.
The statements about 1 crewmember dying who did not go into the rigging
may be correct. One crewmember, the cook, did die, but by exposure, no
reference has been found to not going into the rigging.
However no evidence of a John Ryan has been found on any crew list for
1871 and 1872. The wreck was end of November 1872. Aboard (signed on in
I have just recently made contact with a relative of the family who
purchased Spaight & Sons, and who still own ship companies in the
That
he was in the British Navy, and claims have been made that he deserted
The claim is that he served in
I have found a reference in the
The
Notes of John Stephen Ryan.
John passed
these notes onto me. Most is handed down oral history from his grandfather via
his father, with some research suggestions from John. We have no idea of the
correctness of any of this, John recorded these as faithfully as he recalled.
“My great grandfather and a cousin being men of some wealth decided to
go on a holiday tour of the
about which much was
being heard and to which many of their compatriots had fled during and
following the great
famine in
the fever and my great
grandfather died from it. His cousin (name not known to me) managed to get back
to
but wa ssuffering from
well advanced yellow fever by the tim ehe reached Dublin and died three days
later.
The only information
obtained from him before he died was that his cousin (my great grandfather) has
died of the
fever in a place called
When news of my great
grandfathers death became know the English overlords descended in force on my
ancestral
home – wherever that
was and dispossessed my great grandmother and my grandfather who was said to be
then 6
months of age. Whatever
it was, wa sgiven to some English who were promptly shot by some of our
relatives.
Unfortunately there wer
enot enough of ours to beat the English and it was not long before some others
moved in.
Meantime yet other
relatives came on the scene and took my great grandmother and child into
acquired a shop of some
sort and it to my great grandmother. It was only in this last few years that I
found that this
shop (and residence)
was somewhere in
grandparents well and
regrettably was killed in