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These notes by Don Stanley, based on research done by myself. Last updated
JR claimed that when the ship was wrecked, another crew member tried to persuade him not to go into the rigging. He did go into the rigging with all the other crew members. He said they all survived, but the one crew member who stayed out of the rigging died.
What was found was a ship called the General Neil. It seems certain that is the ship referred to by JR.
This is the original text sent by Michael Palmer, who answers many queries on the Emigration-Ships list::
| Text From Michael Palmer | |
| This looks like the British sailing ship "General Neill", which appears in _Lloyd's Register_ for 1859-1872. She was built in Quebec in 1858, 970 tons register, 172 feet 6 inches long, 34 feet 5 inches broad, and 22 feet 5 inches deep.
_Lloyds Register_ for 1872 contains the word "wrecked" stamped in the margin at the end of the entry, and the vessel does not appear in the 1873 edition. I do not at present know anything of the circumstances of the wreck, as the vessel was not sufficiently important for the event to be recorded in the London _Times_, nor can I find any reference to the event in the annual reports of wrecks, strandings, collisions, and casualties at sea submitted to Parliament in 1871, 1872, and 1873. I recommend that you contact the National Maritime Museum, Greenwich, London SE10 9NF, Great Britain, http://www.nmm.ac.uk, which holds extensive records on wrecks of British vessels. |
Master: 1859-1867 Clark 1867-1872 J. Goffe Owner: 1859-1865 J. H. Watt 1867-1872 T. Spraight Port of Registry: 1859-1865 Glasgow 1867-1872 Limerick Intended Voyage: 1859-1860 Clydeside-Australia 1861-1863 London-India 1863-1867 Liverpool-India 1867-1870 Quebec-Limerick 1870-1872 Liverpool-Quebec |
The Internet site above led me to Memorial University in Canada. They obtained
many ships logs for British registered ships years ago when they appeared likely to be destroyed. They were able to supply two of the ships logs,
for trips in 1871.
These logs revealed no John Ryan aboard. Here are the crew lists for each trip. There isa little useful information regarding crew members in the logs.
| Trip of April 1871 to August 1871, Limerick To Quebec and return | Trip of August 24 1871 to November 28 1871, Limerick To Quebec and return |
| James Goffe, b Devon, Age 30, Captain | James Goffe, b Devon, Age 30, Captain |
| Henry Thorne, b Padstown, Age 47, Mate | Henry Thorne, b Padstown, Age 47, Mate |
| James Conory, b Limerick, Age 42, Signed with X | Michael Ritson, b Limerick, Age 26, Cook, Signed with X |
| Michael McInerney, b Limerick, Age 22, Carpenter | Michael McInerney, b Limerick, Age 22, Carpenter |
| Peter Lyons, b Limerick, Age 29, Carpenter | Peter Lyons, b Limerick, Age 29, Carpenter |
| Edward Beily, b Limerick, Age 34, Cook, Discharged sick in Quebec | Charles Cantrell, b Limerick, Aged 36, AB |
| John O'Loughlin, b Limerick, Age 37, AB | Patrick Minogue, b Limerick, Age 48, AB, Signed with X |
| John Connolly, b Limerick, Age 36, AB, Signed with X | John Connolly, b Limerick, Age 36, AB, Signed with X |
| William Daly, b Limerick, Age 36, AB, Deserted in Quebec | Thomas Frawley, b Limerick, Age 31, OS |
| John Daly, b Limerick, Age 24, AB | John Daly, b Limerick, Age 24, AB |
| John Hannan, b Limerick, Age 25, AB, signed with X | Michael McNamara, b Limerick, Age 20, OS, Deserted in Quebec |
| Martin Ryan, b Limerick, Age 33, AB, Deserted in Quebec | Patrick Mulcahy,b Limerick, Age 26, OS, Deserted in Quebec |
| Thomas Kean, b Limerick, Age 30, AB, Signed with X | Thomas Kean, b Limerick, Age 30, AB, Signed with X |
| John Miller, b London or Limerick, Age 44, AB | John Miller, b London or Limerick, Age 44, AB |
| John O'Shaughnessy, b Limerick, Age 24, AB | Robert Fitzgerald, b Tipperary, Age 16, OS |
| Thomas Leddam, b Limerick, Age 21, OS, Signed with X | Thomas Leddam, b Limerick, Age 21, OS, Signed with X |
| Maurice Connell, b Limerick, Age 18, OS | Maurice Connell, b Limerick, Age 18, OS, Deserted in Quebec |
| Benjamin Goffe, b Devon, Age 17, OS | Benjamin Goffe, b Devon, Age 17, OS |
| Richard Blight or Blythe, b Limerick, Age 15, Boy | Richard Blight or Blythe, b Limerick, Age 15, Boy |
| John Bouchier, b Limerick, Age 15, Boy | John Bouchier, b Limerick, Age 15, Boy |
| William Ryan, b Limerick, Age 22, OS, Deserted in Quebec | Michael Hassett, b UNREADABLE, Age 26, OS, Deserted in Quebec |
| John Taylor, b Manchester, Age 25, OS, Joined in Quebec | |
| George Winder, b Limerick, Age 18, OS, Joined in Quebec |
A request to The-Ships-List for further research avenues led me to David Barron who is a Canadian shipwreck enthusiast. He has a large database of shipwreck information. This was his response::
Having the exact month available meant I could now go back to Memorial and request a newspaper search. This is what they found:: The Silesia is a Hamburg registered ship and thus Memorial have no crew or passenger records. Finding the log to see if they detailed the General Neil crew whom they rescued is a future job.
On the final (and prior) voyage one of the crew is Michael Joyce. He went on to become a leading political figure in Limerick. Having retired from the sea Michael served with his father (Shannon Pilot) and eventually also became a pilot in 1878 and in March of that year married Anne O'Mahony from Scattery Island on the River Shannon. He was elected a member of the Limerick Corporation in 1898 and was chosen Mayor in 1905 and 1906. He was also elected as Member of Parliament from 1900 to 1918. He was a passenger on the Leinster with 791 other passengers this ship was torpedoed on Thursday 10, 1918 there were only 193 survivors. While a member of Parliament he was elected "President of the Pilots Association of the " United Kingdom."
GENERAL NEIL, abandoned at sea (Atlantic) in Dec. 1872.Possibly Reg. At Glasgow, Scotland. Tonnage: 970.Dimensions: 172.6 x 34.5 x 22.0 feet. Built at Quebec in 1858 by Ed Trahan. Medium model(?) (Reference: `Record of Canadian Shipping over 550 tons' by Wallace, Published 1929, p.110).
From Lloyds List Tuesday Nov 5th 1872.
General Neil, Captain Goffe, from Limerick, arrived Quebec.
From Lloyds List Tuesday Dec 3rd 1872
LIMERICK 30th Nov -- A telegram arrived here today announces the loss of the General Neil (Barque) of and for this port, from Quebec. One man drowned.
From Lloyds List Thursday Dec 5rd 1872
NEW YORK 3rd Dec -- The General Neil, of Limerick, has been abandoned, crew saved
From Lloyds List Friday Dec 13th 1872 Page 7 (note incorrect Captains name and month)
HALIFAX,
NB 3rd Dec -- The General Neil (barq), Coffee, from Quebec to Limerick, before reported abandoned, encountered a gale, 18th Oct, and was struck
by a sea, which opened her forward so she became waterlogged. The crew were taken off, 21st Oct, by the Silesia (s), of Hamburg, bound west.
From Lloyds List Tuesday Sat 14th 1872 Page 7
HALIFAX NB 2nd Dec -- The General Neil (barq), Goffe, from Quebec to Limerick, encountered a heavy gale from NNW, 18th Nov, was split open forward, fell over on her beam ends and became waterlogged ; crew took to the rigging, and were saved, with the exception of the cook, on the 21st, by the Silesia (s), Hebich, from Hamburg, which landed them here on the 29th. [Previously reported by cable.]
Using the nsroot-l Rootsweb list, I was fortunate to find a gentleman who found the following useful information in a Halifax newspaper.
Morning Chronicle (Halifax) Saturday November 30, 1872
This is the report referred to above as 'elsewhere'
Shipping Intelligence
Steamer Silesea, HEBICK; Hamburg via Havre, bound to New York, put in for coal - to Davis & Co.. Brought in the crew of the wrecked barque General Neill of Limerick - See report elsewhere.
Report of Capt. James Goffe Master
of the Barque General Neill 970 tons of and for Limerick from Quebec (deals
and staves). Left Quebec Oct. 23, proceeded as far as lon30W lat 49 40N.
On the morning of Nov 18th fell in with a heavy gale from the NNW, running
under lower main topsail and foresail, 2 PM a heavy sea broke over her,
bursting in the after part of the poop, sweeping all out of the cabin,
and breaking the wheel.
A log from the 1872 trip prior to the wrecking has been found in National Archives in Dublin. In addition, a crew list from the final voyage, probably created after the crew arrived back in Dublin, has also been found. With this from a single page from the original log, showing water damage, and virtually unreadable.. These have been obtained from National Archives in Dublin (Shipping Records, Microfilm nos. 47,62,79,92,93,106,107). In the card index is a reference to the ship The General Neill, No. 41586, registered in the years 1867-1872.
The crew from these two 1872 trips follow. The crew list from the wreck voyage is stamped at Limerick 6 Jan 1873, so it is plausible that around there is when the crew arrived back in Limerick.
The ship broached to starboard, when a heavy sea broke over the forepart, carrying away the
jib boom, part of the cutwater and splitting the ship open forward; fell
over on beam ends, and became waterlogged almost immediately; sea making
a clean sweep over everything on deck.
Crew had to take to the rigging and remain there all night. At
daylight found that Michael Ritson, cook, had died from exposure to the
cold.
19th, blowing a gale, most of the crew remaining in the rigging and taking shelter under
the weather side of the topgallant foresail.
20th, more moderate: we buried the cook; our stories all washed overboard except one
barrel of flour. We mixed some flour with salt water, which was the only
food we had.
21st, blowing a hard gale with heavy seas. At 3 pm saw a steamer, which proved to be the Silesia of Hamburg, bound to New York, which kept away for us. The captain sent two boats under the command of his first and second officers. Owing to the heavy sea they were unable to come along side and with great difficulty we were enabled to get a line to them with a life buoy all the crew were pulled from the ship to the boats in an exhausted condition, having been four days without water and exposed to the wet and cold. We all got safely on board the Silesia, where we were treated with every kindness by Captain Hebick and his officers. Too much praise cannot be given to the heroic conduct of the two boats crew in venturing to save us in such a high sea.The Silesia put into Halifax on the 29th for coal.
End.
Trip of March 30 1872 to July 23 1872, Limerick To Quebec and return
Trip of August 8 1872 to November 19 1871, Limerick To Quebec and WRECKED
James Goffe, b Devon, Age 30, Captain
James Goffe, b Devon, Age 32, Captain
Henry Thorne, b Padstown, Age 47, Mate
Henry Thorne, b Padstown, Age 48, Mate
James Conory, b Limerick, Age 42, Signed with X
James Conory, b Limerick, Age 43
John McInerney, b Limerick, Age 21, Carpenter<, First ship/td>
John McInerney, b Limerick, Age 21, Carpenter
Peter Lyons, b Limerick, Age 32, Steward
Robert Gibb, b Glasgow, Age 23, Steward
Michael Ritson, b Limerick, Age 34, Cook,signed with X, previous ship was"Barbara" from Dublin
Michael Ritson, b Limerick, Age 33, Cook,died 19 Nov 72 of exposure
John Milton (?Millic?), b London, Age 45, AB, signed with X, previous ship was"Barbara" from Dublin, left ship sick at Quebec
John Connolly, b Limerick Age 36, AB
Patrick ??b Limerick, Age 38, AB, signed with X, previous ship was"Barbara" from Dublin
Patrick Ellison, b Limerick, Age 29, AB
John Bannon, b Limerick, Age 29, AB, signed with X, previous ship was "Collin??" of Cork,
John Bannon, b Limerick, Age 36, AB
John Connolly, b Limerick Age 36, AB, signed with X
John Daly, b Limerick, Age 25 AB
Benjamin Goffe, b Devon, Age 18, OS
Charles Cantrell, b Limerick, Aged 36, AB
Charles Cantrell, b Limerick, Aged 31, AB, previous ship was ?? of ??
Michael Joyce, b Limerick, Age 21,AB
Edward Long, b Limerick, Aged 26, AB, previous ship was ?? of Sligo
Benjamin Goffe, b Devon, Age 19,AB
Michael Joyce, b Limerick, Age 19,AB, previous ship was "Superb"
Patrick ?Mark?, b Limerick, Age 42, AB, previous ship was "Lissy" from Limerick
John Daly, b Limerick, Age 25 OS, previou ship was "Spring" of Limerick
David Ryan, b Limerick, Age 33, AB, previous ship was "Bertha"
Thomas Frawley, b Limerick, Age 32, OS
Thomas Frawley, b Limerick, Age 30, OS
John Bouchier, b Limerick, Age 16, OS, deserted in Quebec, 1 Jun 1872
James Joyce, b Limerick, Age 19,OS, previous ship was "Sparta"
Edmund Shanahan, b Limerick, Age18, OS, previous ship was "Urania"
Patrick O'Donnell, b Kilrush, Age 18, OS, First Ship
Robert Gibb, b Glasgow, Age 23, First Ship
John Callaghan, b Tipperary, Age 20, OS, First Ship, Deserted St Thomas, 24 Sept
Dan Howard,b Limerick, Age 24, Boy, FIrst Ship, deserted Quebec June 11
Patrick Gleason, b Limerick, Age 23, OS, First Ship, Deserted St Thomas, 20th Oct
Daniel King, b Glasgow, Age 30, OS, signed with X, FIrst Ship, deserted Quebec, June 11
William Malony, b Limerick, Age 20, OS, First Ship, Deserted St Thomas, 20th Oct
William Armshaw, b Limerick, Age 30, OS, signed with X, FIrst Ship, deserted Quebec, June 11
Charles Watson, b ??, Age 21,AB, joined in Quebec, previous ship was "Queen of the North"
I have contacted a close relative of the current owners of Spaight & Son. This company is James McMahon and Son. Limited archival information revealed some of interest about the General Neil, -- see following correspondence.
McMahon Notes on the General Neil vessel.
Limerick newspapers around Nov/Dec 1872 revealed nothing of interest, although a followup in Jan 1873 might.
1867 Sept 12th: Report in Limerick Chronicle quoting the Quebec Daily News of the purchase of the Spaight ship, General Neil.
The L.Chronicle of the 17th August republishes a story from a Canadian paper which describes James Spaight as a hero, while on a passage across the Atlantic on board the s.s Austrian. Apparently he provided great assistance to the captain of this ship when he went to the assistance of a North American steamer which was in difficulties.
Report from the Quebec Daily News that James Spaight entertained The Governor-General and Lady Monck on board his new Spaight ship,
the 'General Neil'.
1868. October 6th: Report in Limerick Chronicle of the return of the Spaight ship, General Neil, which left Limerick a few weeks since, following storm damage and the loss of three of the crew named, Cusack, Sullivan and Brown.
Don's Note -- Lloyds list of October 7th 1868 has the following reference:: SCATTERY ROADS .. arrived [following recd 6th, per M.T. from Limerick at 6.5p.m] General Neil, Goffe LIMERICK, for St John, N.B -- bore up with loss of foretopmast, and three hands lost overboard -- a steamer left Limerick on the 6th to tow her to that port.
1869. January 30th: Report in Limerick Chronicle that the ship General Neill, Capt Goffe, of Spaights has arrived from St John's, NB
after 23 days. The ship has completed 3 voyages to North America within 9 and a half months, notwithstanding having being laid up for
repairs for six weeks. Richard Peppard, only son of John Peppard murdered by natives in New Zealand.
1872. Loss of the Limerick registered barque, the General Neill, owned by James and William Spaight. The vessel was built in 1859 at Quebec.
There is a ballad about this ship. See Limerick Shipping Register file for ship details]. Photocopies only and not on micro-film. A report on 18th April of the destruction by fire of the Spaight house at Derry Castle. Three staff die. In July 2nd, there is an account of photographs being taken of Limerick. Wm Spaight gets �8000 from his insurance claim re the fire [14th Sept]. There is a story in Ruth Delaneys book on the Shannon that Wm Spaight built the steam yacht,'Phoenix' from the proceeds. This yacht is one of the most famous on Lough Derg and is still owned by the Lefroy family of Killaloe and I spent a night on it in the early 1970s.
Limerick Sea Ballads
"The News came into the New Limerick Docks
The General Neil and her crew were lost."
(source: Jim McInerney via the late Monty Ahern).
The chorus of this song is:
"Farewell, Garryowen, Pennywell and Thomondgate,
The Strand, Mall and Treaty Stone; likewise Limerick Gaol,
And no more will the people dread black eyes and broken heads
For the rowdy boys are gone on the General Neil "
(source: Mr T.F.O' Sullivan, BE., former Harbour Engineer.)
Limerick Leader Nov 12th, 1938.
End of General Neil Page
Here is his own account of the sinking. Note that the ship names are incorrect.
The General Nellie On the return from Quebec a terrible gale set in from the southwest, running straight to the lower to sails. At 8:30 a sea
came over her which swept away two men and cleaned the cabin of its stores. The ship was then a helpless log in the trough of the sea. The big deck cargo was next taken by the sea. The cook died from exposure and was buried at sea. Everything they had was gone except a barrel of flour which had been tied to the main mast. The ship floundered about in the tempestuous seas from Monday till Saturday night. Then a vessel was sighted -the "Galerin" of Hamburg with 1,700 passengers on board. Mr. Joyce and crew were taken on board the "Galerin." The shipwrecked crew was taken to Halifax N.S. and subsequently sailed for Cobh. Mr. Joyce returned to Limerick and after completing ?? years at sea was asked by his father and family to stay home.