1) 1 John Norman
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Birth: abt 1775
Birth Place: Netherlands
Death: 8 Mar 1818, age: 43
Death Place: Windsor, NSW, Australia
Death Memo: “Royal Admiral” - free was convict, aged 43
Burial: 9 Mar 1818
Burial Place: St Matthews Windsor
Father: van HEST
Mother: Marja
Old Bailey
JOHN NORMAN, theft : pick pocketing, 8th June,
1791.
Original Text:
233. JOHN NORMAN was indicted for stealing, on the 4th of June, one linen
handkerchief, value 18 d. the property of
Thomas Farr , Esq. privily from his person .
(The witnesses examined separate.)
THOMAS FARR , Esq. sworn.
I was going to a fire there was in Rosemary-lane, I thought I felt something
press against me, I missed my handkerchief; a man said, is not your pocket
picked? says he, this is the man that did it; says he, I saw him take a red and
white linen handkerchief out of your pocket; I took him to Justice Staples; and
as he was going along, a man brought the handkerchief, and said it had been
thrown into the cellar; I did not find the handkerchief on the prisoner, it was
last Saturday, the 4th of June, between six and seven in the evening.
Then you did not see the handkerchief go out of your pocket? - I thought I felt
somebody running against me, I put my hand into my pocket, and missed my
handkerchief.
JAMES RADLEY sworn.
I never saw the prisoner before last Saturday night; I was going to see the fire
in Rosemary-lane, I was desired to watch the prisoner: I saw him try several,
and pick a handkerchief out of Mr. Farr's pocket, and put it into his own; I am
positive to him, and told Mr. Farr; while I was speaking to Mr. Farr, the
handkerchief was dropped; I did not see it dropped; he was searched in about
five minutes, nothing was found upon him.
THOMAS DAWSON sworn.
I know only that the handkerchief was thrown down into my cellar; my servant
delivered it to me.
(Produced and deposed to.)
JOSEPH LANE sworn.
I am servant to Mr. Dawson; these two handkerchiefs were thrown down the cellar
window, I delivered them to Mr. Dawson; these are like them.
Dawson. I have had them in my custody ever since.
Prisoner. Can you take it upon your conscience to say I threw them down? - I did
not see where you threw them down.
PRISONER's DEFENCE.
Gentlemen of the Court and Jury: I was going down Rosemary-lane to an
acquaintance of mine, where I retained and lodged, in Union-street; I happened
to see this fire, I heard a great noise about it, which caused me to hurry down
Rosemary-lane, where the fire was; when I saw this fire, opposite to the fire
there was a great bustle, and in the mean time one of the gentlemen came and
laid hold of me, and said, this is the young man; I believe he said, you took a
handkerchief out of that gentleman's pocket; he laid hold of me and called for
assistance, and searched me; I told him to examine me, the gentleman searched
me, and nothing was found upon me; therefore gentlemen, I think it a hard thing
that I should be bound into this disgrace, concerning a thing I know nothing
about, and I am quite distant from any of my friends; all my friends live in
Rotterdam, I lived some time at a shop in Houndsditch, No. 16, where any body
may inquire my character; I served very honestly and truly, I never was out at
bad hours, in my life. I am quite ignorant of the laws of this nation, I know
not what to do at present, I am out of place, I am looking for a place; I have a
mother in Rotterdam, I learned a kind of hatting-way, which I was able to
perform at this gentleman's in Houndsditch.
How long have you been in this country? - I learned English in Holland, I have
been here a twelvemonth; I was thinking about learning the painting business.
GUILTY, 10 d.
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Baron PERRYN.
JOHN NORMAN, theft with violence : highway
robbery, 13th January, 1792.
The Proceedings of the Old Bailey Ref: t17920113-11
Original Text:
58. JOHN NORMAN was indicted for feloniously assaulting Mark Small , on the
King's highway, on the 28th of December last, and putting him in fear, and
feloniously taking from his person, and against his will, three shirts, and
other things, value 30 s. the property of John Small .
MARK SMALL sworn.
How old are you? - I am fourteen next July.
Do you know what will become of you, if you take a false oath? - I shall go to
hell.
Jury. Do you know the meaning of an oath? - If I should swear false, I shall go
in a place of punishment. I lost three bundles I carried from my mother's,
White-horse yard, Wells-street, East-Smithfield; I was to carry them to Mr.
Waldron's, in Catharine-street, Strand, a cabinet-maker; I was going along
Crutched-friars, and this lad came over to me, and asked me if I could tell him
where Lombard-street was, the Post-office, and I was going to give him
directions, and he said he would be much obliged to me if I would show him; when
I came to Lombard-street, I said, there is the Post-office; never mind, says he,
I will call as I come back; he followed me, and just as I got to St. Andrew's
church he said he would give me sixpence to carry a letter to Ely-place; I took
the letter, and he shewed me which house to go in; as I was going in that house,
he snatched my bag, in which were the three bundles, off my head, hat and all,
and then he ran down the street, and dropt my hat just at the bottom
of Ely-place; I halloo'd out, stop
thief! as soon as ever I picked my hat up, he was out of my sight; I ran to Mr.
Waldron's, to tell him I was robbed; I cannot tell what time it was, but the
lamps were lighted; they were not lighted when I set off from home, it was then
between three and four; I had not known him before; I took notice of him by his
face and voice; I saw him again on the Monday, at night, at the Public-office,
East-Smithfield; I saw my mother put the things in, but I cannot tell exactly
what they were.
JOHN SMALL sworn.
I know that my wife washes for the young men the linen was going to, and put up
the things.
HANNAH SMALL sworn.
I am wife of John Small : on Christmas-eve I sent my son with three bundles; in
one was a waistcoat, one pair of blue cotton stockings, with silk stockings; the
next was one muslin neckcloth and other things; and a pair of shoes in the third
bundle; that he was to carry to Mr. Chappell's, in the first place, in
Middle-row, Holborn; and the next place he was to go to Mr. Waldron's,
Catharine-street, in the Strand, with the rest; he came home, and told me he had
lost the things, and said he could swear to the person from an hundred; I never
saw any of the things again; I suppose they might be worth 30 s. altogether.
ROBERT DAWSON sworn.
I am the officer that took the prisoner up; the boy and the father came to me on
the Monday; he described to me the man as a short man, black coat, black
waistcoat, and corduroy breeches, and something particular in his walk, with
straight light hair; in the afternoon I apprehended the prisoner in St.
Catharine's, and brought him to the King's-arms, East-Smithfield; he had on then
a blue great coat, buttoned from the top to bottom; I put the prisoner in the
tap-room, amongst not less than twenty, and then sent for the boy; he came with
his father and mother, and picked out the prisoner, and said, that is the man in
the corner, but that is not the coat he had on, and then told me his dress
again; on which I made him pull his great coat off, and then appeared the
clothes the boy had described him to have had on when he robbed him: I searched
him, but found nothing on him that concerned this robbery.
Prisoner. This gentleman pointed me out to the boy.
Dawson. I did not; I sent the boy in from the parlour by himself, and told him
to go in the tap-room; and he went in, and said the man was there; afterwards I
went in with him, and told him to go and put his hand upon him.
CATHERINE VANNEST sworn.
I know the prisoner at the bar; he dined with me that day, Christmas-eve, and
staid with me till six o'clock in the evening; I live in Great Gardens, St.
Catharine's.
How came that young man to dine with you? - He often comes, and I wash for him,
and he lodged in a house in St. Catherine's-lane; I take in washing, and my
husband is at sea: he went away after the bellman went, which I compute to be
six, or half an hour after; he is my relation.
Did not he get his dinner often with you? - No, only by accident.
How long ago might he have been with you before? - The value of a week.
When had he dined with you? - He dined with me the Sunday before.
What relation is he? - He is my brother.
How came you to be quite so sure it was Christmas-eve? - Because it was on a
Saturday, and Christmas-day was on a Sunday.
Might it not be on the 17th, that was on a Saturday? - No, it was the day before
Christmas-day, I am very positive.
Was there any body else but you and him dined together? - Nobody else.
DENNIS STACK sworn.
From one till six he was in company along with me, in the same room with Mrs.
Vannest, and dined with us by invitation) on Christmas-eve; she invited me on
Friday.
Did she tell you she would meet him? - She did not.
Did she give you any particular reason for dining with her on that day? - No, my
Lord.
Was you used to dine with Mrs. Vannest? - When I come from sea I always do, my
Lord; she washes for me.
Perhaps you dined with her more than once? - Yes, more than once.
Did you dine by invitation? - Yes.
Did you pay her for your dinner? - Always paid her for my dinner.
Always paid her? - Sometimes I did.
Jury. You said you always paid her? - Gentlemen, it is always paid somehow or
somehow.
Court. On your oath, did you ever pay Vannest for your dinner? - No, my Lord,
she never charged me nothing for my dinner.
Did you ever pay her for your dinner? - No, never, my Lord, lately.
When did you pay her for your dinner? - About two years ago.
Where did she live then? - In Plymouth Dock.
Did you dine with her on Christmas-day? - I did, and the day after.
What had you for dinner on Saturday? - Beef and pudding.
What sort of a pudding? - Plumb-pudding.
Was the beef roasted or boiled? - Roasted.
What had you on Sunday? - A leg of mutton roasted, my Lord, and potatoes.
What had you on Monday? - The remains that were left after Sunday.
Had you nothing else? - Nothing else, only a pot of beer and a twopenny loaf.
Who dined with you on Saturday? - John Norman , Catherine Vannest , and Dennis
Stack .
Who dined with you on Sunday? - The same.
Who dined with you on Monday? - Catherine Vannest and me alone.
Court to Vannest. I understood you to say that there was nobody dined with you
on Saturday but yourself and your brother, but I find I was mistaken, there was
another man? - Yes, there was that man, and my brother, and myself: this man
came up to my room about one or two o'clock, and I asked him to have a bit of
dinner with me, as he was not well.
I understand you wash for him? - I do.
When had you seen him before? - I see him every day when he is not at work; he
often calls up to my apartment.
Did he dine with you the day before? - He came up stairs, and I asked him if he
had had any victuals; he said no, and I told him to go to the cupboard and get
some.
Does he frequently dine with you? - Not always, only sometimes.
Does he pay you for his dinners? - He does not pay me, because I looked upon him
as a man that pays me for my washing, and I give him victuals when he is out of
work.
When did he dine with you since? - He has had victuals up in my room several
times.
Has he dined with you since that time? - Yes.
When? - Last Saturday, for the last time.
When was the next time, after that Saturday, that your brother dined with you? -
On Monday, please you, my Lord.
Did he dine with you on Christmas-day? - He did not; he dined with me on Monday
following.
Did your brother dine with you on Christmas-day? - He did.
Did any body else besides? - No.
Did your brother dine with you on Monday? - He did.
What had you for dinner on Saturday? - To tell the truth, my Lord, we had an
Irish stew, made of mutton and potatoes.
That was your Saturday's dinner, on Christmas-eve? - It was, my Lord.
What had you on Sunday? - A bit of roast beef and a plumb-pudding.
That was the day that this Stack did not dine with you? - It was.
What had you on Monday? - Some of that which was left on Sunday.
That was roast beef and pudding, not mutton and potatoes? -
Prisoner. I am entirely innocent: when I was in the room Dawson told the boy I
was there, and he naturally pitched upon me when he was told I was taken there.
Court to Mark Small . Did Dawson tell you to go and see the man, and that he was
there, or only for you to go and see if the man was there? - He told me to go
and see whether the man was there; I went in and saw he was there, and came and
told him, and then he told me to go and put my hand on his head, and he would
follow me and see who it was.
GUILTY of stealing, but not of the highway robbery . (Aged 16.)
Transported for seven years .
Tried by the first Middlesex Jury before Mr. Justice WILSON.
MUSTERS OF NSW 1805-1806?24 Ref B0201 NAME John Norman, WHEAT 14.5, MAIZE 8,
BARLEY 3, POTATOES 20r,FALLOW 4, ACRES 30 total, HORSES 2 male , 1 female, GOATS
2 male , 2 female, HOGS 8 female, BUSHELS in hand 4 wheat 8 maize, PEOPLE 1
prop, 1 wife, 2 children 2 convicts, REMARKS Watkins Farm right of wife (note
mistake in farm name should be Whitton Farm). Spouse Research: Death Dates; "The
Hawkesbury Pioneer Register" Marriage Dates to John Norman; "The Hawkesbury
Pioneer Register" (Information provided by Raelene Treis).
A John Norman was transported on The Royal Admiral Jan 1792. Need to check if
this is him.
NORMAN, John. Per "Royal Admiral, 1792 1809 Feb, Apr Produce received from at
the Hawkesbury Stores (Reel 6040; 9/2673 pp.5, 13, 33) 1809 Aug District
Constable. Discharged from the Hawkesbury Stores (Reel 6040; 9/2673 p.83) 1811
Feb 15-16, 25 Purchased goods at auctions by John Howe at Windsor (Reel 6040; ML
C197 pp.13, 15, 19, 22) 1812 Sep 12 Permitted to draw cattle from the Government
Herds on credit (Reel 6038; SZ758 p.315) 1816 Nov 16 On list of persons who came
as convicts and who claimed they were free at the last General Muster, without
supporting documentation (Reel 6038; SZ759 p.285)
A John Norman died aged 43 in 1818 St Matthews Windsor.
Sydney Gazette 6 Dec 1808 Court of Criminal Jurisdiction On Wednesday the Court
reassembled when: Thomas LEASON, a settler at Hawkesbury, was put to the bar and
arraigned upon five different indictments, whereby he stood charged with
feloniously receiving various articles of property stolen from several persons,
knowing the same to have been stolen. The trial proceeded upon a count of
receiving, knowing to have been stolen, a watch in a tortoiseshell case, a
sheet, a small bag, a shawl and sundry other articles produced in Court, which
were burglariously stolen out of the house of William BLORE, at Prospect, on the
night of the 23rd May last, by three men, who had exercised much violence on the
occasion; and for which robbery Thomas McLAUGHLANE the younger, was tried on the
30th of the same month, and acquitted. In support of the charge, Martha
LANCASTER, who resided with William BLORE when the robbery was committed,
deposed to the articles produced, as belonging to herself and Blore jointly. The
watch she described as having from an accidental fall received a slight injury
on the dial plate; the other articles she described with equal accuracy. Patrick
FLYNN, constable, deposed, that he was sent with a warrant to search the
prisoner?s house on the 17th ult. and found therein part of the articles sworn
to; the sheet and shawl were found concealed between a bed and the sacking of
the bed head. Patrick DEVOY deposed, that he had once lived as a labouring
servant with the prisoner; during which time his house had been searched for
stolen property on an information which his (the prisoner?s) mother had lodged
against him; and that he had very recently heard it confidentially asserted that
the prisoner was in the actual possession of the watch stolen from Blore at
Prospect. Which information he received from John RUSSLER, a neighbour of the
prisoner. John NORMAN deposed, that the watch was obtained from the prisoner;
and that he, being a district constable, had kept a watchful eye over the
prisoner, who was a neighbour, and of such infamous repute that his house had
been repeatedly searched for stolen goods; that he gave countenance to the most
abandoned characters; many of whom had come to an untimely end; and, that in
fact, the prisoner at the bar was a perfect nuisance to the surrounding
settlers. The Court declined calling further evidence; as the property was
clearly ascertained to have been in the prisoner?s possession; and he was
therefore put on his defence; which was presented in writing. It went to
acknowledge the possession of the articles which he accounted for, by stating
their purchase from one Michael BAGAN, who was executed with Felix DONNELLY in
June last for robbing the house of Edward EDWARDS, on the Parramatta Road. To
the purchase of the watch for its true value he called evidence, which was more
injurious to his case than otherwise; after which the Court cleared; and upon
re-opening returned a verdict of Guilt ? 14 years transportation. The cast of
main players: Thomas Lisson/Leeson/Leason arrived in 1792 on the Royal Admiral
William Blore / Blower arrived in 1791 on the Albemarle Patrick Devoy 1801
Canada Martha Lancaster 1806 William Pitt
St Matthews Windsor Registers - John and Margaret Norman were witnesses at the
marriage of Thomas Broughton and Mary Lynch on 6 Jan 1812.
Spouse: Margaret McCarthey
Birth: 1791
Death: 18 Aug 1841, age: 50
Death Place: NSW
Marriage: 24 Feb 1807
Marr Place: NSW
Children: John (1807-)
Other spouses: Anne Slater
(2) 1.1 John Norman
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Birth: 1807
Birth Place: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Birth Memo: In "Births in Australia 1788- 1828" by James Hugh Donohoe - Margaret
McCarty is listed as mother
Index
Marja parent of (1) 1
HEST
UNNAMED (van) parent of (1) 1
McCarthey
Margaret spouse of (1) 1
Norman
John (1) 1
John (2) 1.1