Where Did Horace Cartwright Go After Leaving India in 1948

Horace George Cartwright

is my partners grandmothers brother. To put it another way, he is my father-in-laws first cousin.

The family lost touch with Horace after his sister Gladys Ida Ryan, formerly Huddlestone, nee Cartwright, died in 1933.

We have amassed a lot of information about Horace and his family and would love to make contact with them. If you have any info, please EMAIL me.


Birth Certificate Details

Birth Registration district Birmingham.
1902 birth in the sub-district of Ladywood in the county of Birmingham

Date

22 June 1902

Place

56 Steward Street UD

Name

Horace George Cartwright

Sex

Boy

Father

Francis Cartwright, Brewers Drayman

Mother

Florence Cartwright formerly Smith

Informant

Florence Cartwright, mother, 56 Steward Street

Registered

28 July 1902

Registrar

Thomas Maryon

Marriage Certificate Details

Marriage out the United Kingdom. Command of the 4th/7th Dragoon Guards At Sialkot

Date

11 Sep 1928

At

Mussoorie India

Name/Surname/Nat

Groom Horace George Cartwright,English

Bride Doris Kate Pretoria Clift, English

Age

Groom 26

Bride 24

Condition

Groom Bachelor

Bride Spinster

Rank/Profession

Groom Sergeant,4th/7th Dragoon Guards

Bride Nil

Residence at time of marriage

Both Mussoorie

Fathers Name

Groom George Frank Cartwright

This is incorrect, probably Horace never knew his father

Bride Arthur Albert Clift

Rank/Profession of father

Groom Deceased

Bride W.O Class (ii), I.O.L

Witnesses

S Chase, I M D Clift, A A Clift, Ethel Chase


Notes Married in the Christ Church, Mussoorie according to the rites and ceremonies of the Church of England by Banns by me W.N Munn, Chaplin, Mussoorie.

Ministry of Defence personal record of service. This is an abridged record of service. The Ministry of Defence do not send original documents.

392297 Sub Conductor Horace George CARTWRIGHT
Indian Army Service Corps

  • Enlisted at Birmingham into the Corps of the Dragoons

  • Regular Army ( as No. D/33997 ) and posted to Depot 23.06.19

  • Posted to Cavalry Depot 25.06.19

  • Posted to 7 th Dragoon Guards 26.06.19

  • Posted to 4/7th Dragoon Guards 13.10.19

  • Appointed Unpaid Lance Corporal 14.04.20

  • Awarded 3rd Class Army Certificate of Education 20.07.20

  • Appointed Paid Lance Corporal 16.09.20

  • Awarded 2nd Class Army Certificate of Education 23.02.21

  • Appointed Acting Corporal 18.09.21

  • Promoted Corporal 18.09.21

  • Appointed Lance Sergeant 06.02.25

  • Extended Service to complete 12 years with the Colours 18.11.25

  • Transferred to the Cavalry of the Line ( as No. 392297) 31.07.27

  • Promoted Sergeant 27.07.28

  • Extended Service to complete 21 years with the Colours 30.07.29

  • Posted to the Royal Dragoon Guards 05.10.29

  • Transferred to Indian Unattached List for employment as Sergeant in the Indian Army

  • Awarded Ist Class Army Certificate of Education 23.03.32

  • Promoted Staff Sergeant 23.11.32

  • Promoted Sub Conductor 23.11.38

Additional details taken from the record;
Declared age on enlistment; 18 years 2 months.
Date of birth recorded as 21st June 1901.
Birthplace; Hockley, Birmingham, Warwickshire.
Address on enlistment; 7/39 Villa Street, Hockley.
Trade on enlistment; Stamper ( not clear ).
His next of kin was initially recorded as his Aunt, Maud CLARKE.
He married Doris Kate Pretoria CLIFT at Mussoorie, India on 11th September 1928.

Children recorded;
Doreen May Ann born at Murree on 1st May 1934.
Margaret Rose Pretoria born at Quetta on 15th November 1937.
Address on discharge; 44 Whitemore Street, Hockley.

Physical description on enlistment;
Height; 5 ft. 6 ins.
Weight; 123 lbs.
Chest; 35 1/2ins.
Complexion; Fresh
Colour of eyes; Brown.
Colour of hair; Dark Brown.
Religion; Church of England.

ABRIDGED VERSION OF INDIAN SERVICES MILITARY RECORD. Obtained from Oriental and India Records Office (OIRC). My own notes are in red, otherwise it quotes the record.

RECORD OF SERVICES -- OFFICERS -- INDIAN SERVICES
Horace George Cartwright of the RIASC (Royal Indian Army Service Corp) Personal No. S.J. 218, type of commission E.C.O

Born Birmingham, England 21.6.1901, Nationality English, Religion C of E

His birth date is incorrect. The date on the military record makes him one year older than he was.

Previous Service
4th/7th Dragoon Guards 23.6.1919 to 5.10.1929 (10 years and 103 days)
Royals 6.10.1929 to 22.11.1929 (47 days)
RIASC 23.11.1929 to 12.9.1941 (11 years 297 days)

Ranks
Ty/Lieutenant 13.9.1941 Gazette Notification (GN) Gazette of India no 1485/41
A/ Captain 13.9.41 GN D.O. pt no 8/60 of 1942
Captain 13.12.41 GN I.A.O 2117/1942
A/Major 5.1.43 GN I.A.O 858/1943
W/Lieutenant 26.3.43 GN I.A.O 6/AP/1943
Ty/Capt 27.5.43 GN 6/AP/1943
Ty/Maj & Ws/Capt 14.11.1945 GN O2E (I) Pt IIO No 139 Dated 21.2.1946

Nature of Employment during service
Instructor (School),RIASC,13.9.41-26.3.43
Quartermaster, VCO's School, 26.3.43
Instructor, VCO'S School 25.5.43
Posted from VCO's school to I.S.S.D, Allahabad Assumes Command
Posted to HQ Lucknow Dist Rgt RIASC From Allahabad 4.11.45
Appointed A/Major HQ Lucknow 4.11.45
Posted to No. 9 Ind Res Sup Depot18.2.46
To HQ Uttar Prakesh Area 23.12.46
Assumed Command S.S.D Allahabad 1/1/47
Assumed Command 40 Sup Pl 1.7.47
Posted to 626 Coy RIASC 40 Sup Pl 13.7.47 Retains T/Major
18 Feb 1948 Departs for UK on Empire Brent.

Qualifications and Exams passed
Transport, at Poona, 13.10.23
Small Arms, at Pachmari, 3/1928
Anti gas, at Belgaum, 31/3/36
Supply Transport, R'Pindi, 6.1.30
Deptl Exam to Warrant Rank, Quetta, 23.9.37

Personal
Married 11.9.1928 at Mussorie, India to Doris Kate Pretoria Clift (wife living at 10.9.43)
Child born 1.5.1934 at Murree Doreen May Anne baptised at Kohat
Child born 5.11.1937 at Quetta Margaret Rose Pretoria baptised at Quetta
Next of Kin (10.9.43) Mrs D Cartwright (wife), c/0 V.C.Os School,Bareilly, Uttar Prakesh

Leave During Service
From 11.1.33 to 9.2.33 (1 month) From 8.7.36 to 7.8.36 (1 month)

Next is continuous leave of 1 years and 72 days From 9.11.34 to 7.1.35 (Combined Leave) 60 days From 7.1.35 to 8.11.35 (P/L Furlough) 305 days From 9.11.35 to 19.1.36 (Ext of Leave) 72 days

From 2.6.47 to 27.6.47 (28 days war leave)

Part of email correspondence in Jul 2000 arising from a post to the INDIA-L Rootsweb group by Don Stanley, intended to see if anyone there had knowledge of Horace in India. My own notes are in red, otherwise it quotes the email (NB this is not the whole email)

I read your e-mail dated the 4th, and damnme you could've knocked me over with a feather......................! In 1947 Major Cartwright was my Company Commander at a place called Bannu(BUN-NOO). His wife was with him but his two girls were not.

The Cartwrights were very nice and gentle people. They, I think, used to breed Sidney Silkies for show purposes; I say this because just before he left Bannu on repatriation back to the UK they gave me their Sidney Silky(male) as they could NOT or did not have the heart to put their pet down: Trixey was a lovely dog, I had him for many years..... a real war veteran, he was with me on three different "fronts" in the India/Pakistan War!

Towards the end of 1948 I got a letter from the Cartwrights asking me about the welfare of their dog; THAT LETTER WAS ADDRESSED FROM SOME PLACE IN KENT. I am sorry I cannot be more specific than this as much water has flown under the bridge of time!

With regards to Mrs Cartwright; I do not think that that beautiful lady was born in England, and if she was, then she must've gone out to India as a young child. Here is some information you may like to follow up on. From the data provided by you it appears that Mrs Cartwright was a CLIFT.

There was a Captain Clift serving in the Indian Army. He had three children, all of them came to Australia.

Some information on names followed, but it has not been possible to locate any of the people mentioned to date.

I am sorry I do not know where Cartwrights daughters were in 47/48. As I mentioned in my first e-mail, the girls were NOT in Bannu: I dont blame them because Bannu was a frontier town enclosed within a double apron barbed wire fence; it was a rather "rough and ready" sort of town, where there was NO social life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND you will admit that this "state of affairs" would not be conducive to, nor to the liking of young girls!

I was under the impression that they were in some other part of India or had "gone on ahead"(?) Though the latter course of action does'nt seem very likely!

Horace Cartwright's signature, taken from his Indian Services Record

Horace Cartwrights Signature